Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/31/1998 03:08 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 270 - REQUIRED PREMARITAL COUNSELING Number 0453 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the committee would next hear HB 270, "An Act relating to premarital relationship counseling; amending Rule 9(e)(7), Administrative Rules of Court." He asked Representative Kemplen to introduce his bill. Number 0478 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said HB 270 is an attempt to address one of the fundamental problems of society in terms of broken families and it provides an economic incentive for people contemplating holy matrimony to engage in premarital counseling. He directed the committee's attention to the background information in committee packets; specifically, the study, "Predicting Marital Satisfaction Using PREPARE: A Replication Study" showing a correlation between premarital counseling and the success of the marriage. An excerpt from Policy Review indicates that of the 100,000 couples per year that complete PREPARE, a premarital inventory developed by Lutheran psychologist David Olson, a questionnaire can predict with 85 percent accuracy who will divorce. It's a good indicator of whether or not two people who are contemplating the marriage commitment are compatible. It allows the couple to discuss key issues and to determine how to address those key issues during their relationship. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN explained HB 270 is fairly simple and it establishes an incentive for marriage applicants in Alaska to attend a minimum of four hours of relationship counseling. The marriage license fee for couples attending the counseling is $25 and $300 for couples who have not met the minimum of four hours counseling. He explained HB 270 does not mandate the counseling; it provides an economic incentive for couples to participate in relationship counseling prior to marriage. Number 0701 CHAIRMAN BUNDE wondered if the $300 fee would discourage marriage for people in lower income levels in some areas of the state. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN believes it would serve as an incentive for couples to attend the premarital counseling. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked what the anticipated cost was for the premarital counseling. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said counseling done through a social worker is anticipated to cost about $275, whereas if counseling is done through a tribal elder or through a church, it would be easier and less expensive. Number 0755 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN confirmed, "So if I know a couple who decides they don't want the counseling, their fee is $300 and they can go ahead and do their thing. If they want to save some bucks and they go to a minister who has sent off two boxtops and a $20 bill and he's considered a minister by four people that go to his church, does that negate the $275?" Number 0890 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said it was a possibility based on the definition of "counselor" in subsection (d) of HB 270. Number 0830 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern this may be kind of a "limited entry to a license to steal" in that several years ago ministers were declared nonprofit so they didn't have to pay the tax rate, and suddenly everyone was sending away for certificates declaring them to be a minister. His concern was that HB 270 would set up a situation whereby these "ministers" would advertise their services as a way for people to save $275. Number 0890 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN noted he had an amendment he would like to introduce at some point. Number 0920 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to adopt Amendment 1 which reads: Page 1, line 5, following (b) Delete all through line 9 Insert "A surcharge of $275.00 shall apply to the fee for all marriage license applications unless the applicants submit acceptable evidence of having received at least 4 hours of relationship counseling. Acceptable evidence of such counseling shall be a certificate attesting under oath or affirmation of the counselor and the parties that the parties have completed at least 4 hours of relationship counseling in the six months immediately preceding application for a marriage license." CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected for discussion purposes. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN explained the department had expressed concern with getting locked into a $25 fee in statute and Amendment 1 allows the flexibility to change the fee without having to introduce legislation. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if it was Representative Kemplen's intention that the remaining language in (b), as it exists, would follow the language in Amendment 1. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN pointed out the language in (b) is replaced by Amendment 1. CHAIRMAN BUNDE removed his objection and asked if there was further objection to Amendment 1. Hearing none, Amendment 1 was adopted. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked Al Zangri to come before the committee to present his remarks at this time. Number 1000 AL ZANGRI, Chief, Bureau of Vital Statistics, Department of Health and Social Services, testified in support of HB 270 as amended. It is the department's belief that some revenue can actually be generated from this legislation and is attempting to find additional studies and literature that discuss the effect of this legislation. In response to Representative Green's question regarding the impact and effectiveness of this legislation as written, individuals will certainly be able to get around it; however, in order for that to happen someone will have to commit fraud certifying the 4 hours of counseling have been fulfilled. On the other hand, he believed counseling sessions from a minister would be of great help to individuals before making a commitment. He pointed out that most of the ministers in Juneau require a counseling session of at least a full day prior to performing a marriage. Number 1000 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the department has found in its statistical review there are in fact, charlatans claiming to be ministers. MR. ZANGRI said he was certain those situations do exist, but the department has no way of knowing how many exist because there is no licensing provision. CHAIRMAN BUNDE said, "I would guess there wouldn't be any financial gain there if it was just somebody that wanted to fight the state or the system, but if you can get free counseling or very inexpensive counseling from a legitimate - I use the word (indisc.) ministers ...." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he was in favor of the counseling session; he believed that too many people rush into marriage and don't consider certain things. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were further questions or additional testimony on HB 270. Number 1178 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON asked if Representative Kemplen had had any discussions with Representative Kelly regarding his covenant marriage bill and how these two pieces of legislation might fit together. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said he has not had discussions with Representative Kelly but he has reviewed Representative Kelly's bill and he believes the two pieces of legislation actually compliment each other. He added the only impact would be in terms of the fiscal note; if Representative Kelly's legislation passes, the fiscal note for HB 270 would be moot because the department's computer system would need to be modified only once. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN understood Representative Kelly's legislation was voluntary, whereas HB 270 was compulsory. Number 1244 MR. ZANGRI explained that in terms of the fiscal note, if both pieces of legislation pass this session, the department would need to change their forms and computer program only once. CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted this was the first hearing for HB 270 and it would be held in committee for further consideration.
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